TLC ideas

4 years 4 months ago #7 by snakeplissken
Replied by snakeplissken on topic TLC ideas
Thanks for the new topic snow.

I am familiar with TLC but didn't know the every detail until i played for first time. And i find it very good concept and absorbing. That's one of the best ways to play HD.

I think now i understand what TLC is and specially the role of team leader and his commands to other players.

I like the idea of 1 life very much (except in few tough maps). But i think 1 life concept is enjoyable when playing with at least 4 or more players. It also depends on type of tactics we use in a map. For e.g if there is only one Medic in team of 5 players. Then it can be a problem in many maps as Medic has to run all around the players and positions on map to heal players. Though this is doable, its not enjoyable. It also slows down the pace of the game as we sit on single map for too long.

I think if we want 1 life game, we need to give players more flexibility in their supplies and roles. So that we can finish Map in enjoyable way and limited time frame. I personally think 30 mins should be the max timeline to complete a map. Even in a real battlefield, soldiers do not have eternal time to complete mission. They carefully plan their tactics while time is the ultimate constraint. In fact time is the real underlying factor in every battle and every war.

For 1 life game - Team leader should create a plan and assign roles to each player. Players should stick to their roles in completion of objectives and combat. But they should be given flexibility to do these things. I mean, give players some liberty to choose their weapons, inventory and Medpacks. Of course Team leader will have right to change the plans and tactics anytime during a map. For e.g if some key member of Squad is dead, then team has to reorganize and adopt new tactics. This is important in tough maps like Rommels road and Tiger Tomb.

Another problem with a single Medic is that the combat become too realistic and less enjoyable. The Medic goes around players to heal them and this can be time consuming in LARGE maps specially where players are spread out across a map. Of course if map has to be completed by keeping squad together, then medic can do the job easily. But when squad splits on a large map, things become very difficult.

Anyway, i would like to complete missions in reasonable time lines. Of course on many days, i just wanna relax, sip my whiskey, and take everything slow and easy. But mostly i am interested in Coop with time limits. This will also allow players to play multiple maps. So if we have like 2 hours of TLC - we can easily go for 4-6 maps.
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4 years 4 months ago - 4 years 4 months ago #8 by snowman
Replied by snowman on topic TLC ideas
The medic doesn't have to run to those who are wounded. They fall back to the medic
for healing while someone else takes the role. If the group splits, the medic goes to the
group with most important or risky path.

Our best missions were those when we played a map for at least 1 hour. Everyone
who played those maps can agree with what I say.

Engineer is the one that carries all ammo, so he would be important. We lately played
with backpacks for everyone, but it may be the case to play with a weapon until the
engineer finishes your ammo too. Picking weapons is a decision of the group. We can
play as British, US or both so we equip ourselves accordingly. Picking optics and
silenced weapons is making everything too easy, so it's only the TL who wants you to
take a special weapon, not you always jumping with recommendations.

You must remember that as a soldier, the TL speaks and not soldiers. A TL simply
can't listen to the useless chatting that goes around. That's why everyone has to
focus on the role with patience and discipline. Always ask the TL if you want to say
something. It's hard to listen to everyone chatting. TLs have to listen to everyone,
plan and then simplify the roles and tasks to be completed. Every insubordination
and distraction breaks up the game.

Also stuff like players joining the game after the mission has started breaks the game.

I always suggested we play 4-5 maps, having only 2-3 with full TLC mode kicked
in. This is because it gets very tiring for the TL to concentrate for a long time, so
in between we have some fun, ramboing a bit :)

"Walk through all fear no matter what."
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4 years 4 months ago - 4 years 4 months ago #9 by NL
Replied by NL on topic TLC ideas
I always enjoyed TLC the most when players were disciplined. That means they stuck to their role and orders, did not chat too much and had some patience if they had to wait for orders or an objective to complete. I also like it when TLC is as realistic as possible, so 1 life per map and true soldier classes with limited ammo and aids. Forcing a time limit will cause players and leaders to rush which will result in avoidable deaths and failed objectives and will totally change the dynamic of TLC.

BTW best way to play HD2 for me was the VTM variant because you still had teamleaded groups but you played against another group of human players making the experience much more realistic and unpredictable.
short explanation on VTM

Trust is hard to gain but easy to lose.
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4 years 4 months ago #10 by snakeplissken
Replied by snakeplissken on topic TLC ideas
Well, underlying any mission, the basic question is - "how can objectives be achieved by simple and enjoyable strategy?"

Whereas i do agree with the role of Team leader in TLC. I don't agree with putting too many constraints on team members. For eg idea of one Medic in a long map. Every time a players gets injured - he has to rush to Medic (or Medic rush to him). This disrupts normal flow of game in a map specially during a combat and 1 life rules. Limiting weapons, inventory, ammunition, Medpacks etc is unnecessary constraints.

I think role of Team leader is to devise a plan, assign roles and supervise the mission while leading the squad. But putting unnecessary constraints like right to details of inventory is needless.

Of course, the method of TLC also varies to our personal choices. How a team leader wanna play the game and how he wanna deal with his team.

My preference is to devise a plan and assign roles. Team should execute the plan and follow the orders of team leader all times. But i don't mind if a team member wanna pick a Sniper or throw grenade or if he wanna carry extra medpack. Though i strongly favors time lines in a mission. Sitting on a map for 1 hour doesn't look very practical to me (apart from some long maps like Rommels Road).

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4 years 4 months ago #11 by NL
Replied by NL on topic TLC ideas
@snake
I think you are forgetting one important aspect of TLC. It is also important all players get some playing time and play out their assigned role.

If every soldier can pick up grenades, weapons and ammo or even bazookas and explosives there is no more role for the engineer.
If every soldier can carry or pick up med kits there is no more role for the medic.
If every soldier can pick up a long distance rifle (maybe scoped) there is no more role for an appointed specialist.
This goes against everything TLC was once created for.

TLC, in my opinion, is about trying to complete missions in the most realistic way possible. IRL it's about completing the mission and trying to avoid any casualties if possible. This means you have to advance slowly, carefully, organized and use observation and communication to judge the best way to go about your task and all team members must do their assigned job.

Trust is hard to gain but easy to lose.
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4 years 4 months ago #12 by snakeplissken
Replied by snakeplissken on topic TLC ideas

NL wrote: @snake

If every soldier can pick up grenades, weapons and ammo or even bazookas and explosives there is no more role for the engineer.
If every soldier can carry or pick up med kits there is no more role for the medic.
If every soldier can pick up a long distance rifle (maybe scoped) there is no more role for an appointed specialist.
This goes against everything TLC was once created for.


It doesn't matter what weapons Team players pick up. They still have to carry out orders of Team leader strictly. Though they may have some liberty to use their inventory. For eg - if i order a Team member to clear a certain Bunker/House with enemy soldiers - i don't mind if team member uses MP44 or Thompson. If i order a team member to take out certain tank - i don't care if team member wanna take it out with Bazooka or TNT. I leave that option to team player on how he sees best.

Also before starting a TLC map - i wanna ask Team members of their specialty and best abilities in a particular map. For eg if someone is fully familiar with enemy positions and their pattern. I wanna put Sniper into his hands. Rather than 'forcing' that member to become a Medic or an Engineer. If someone is good with taking out enemy Tanks, i wanna put Bazooka and TNT in his hands rather than 'forcing' him to be a Sniper. If someone is good enough to carry Sniper as well as Bazooka in a particular map, than i would assign him both tasks. And if i assign a risky task to a certain team member, i will also give him liberty to carry a medpack.

Also my TLC point of view is employing a strategy to complete a mission with least or no casualties but within a reasonable time.

NL wrote: TLC, in my opinion, is about trying to complete missions in the most realistic way possible. IRL it's about completing the mission and trying to avoid any casualties if possible. This means you have to advance slowly, carefully, organized and use observation and communication to judge the best way to go about your task and all team members must do their assigned job.


I agree with you that realism is one key thing in TLC. But Time is the most important underlying factor in any combat.

Making a strategy and employing Tactics without any time consideration is not Realism. If realism is the ultimate goal than every mission in TLC has to be played with time limit.

But again, i don't think Realism is the ultimate goal. Ultimate goal for TLC is to have fun. And playing with realistic measures in TLC is actually fun to many people including me. That's why we like the concept of TLC. But too much realism may cut down fun in game sometimes. Then again, that's a matter of opinion and personal choice.

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